Found a couple more rare than a unicorn…


Found a couple that lives 5 minutes away, is a little bit younger than us, and is pretty much open to anything we want to do.  We met them on a saturday and let our kids play in an indoor jungle-gym place that I wish existed when I was their age.  We hit things off good; the next night they came over and we all played in the same room.  Little awkwardness, we were their second full swap couple, and the first time they swapped sober.  The husband literally said, we’re here, do what you want with us.  There were a couple of bro-fists between he and I as we both had our way with the other’s wife.

Two nights later we evolved a few rules.  Pretty risky, but has turned out well.  So rules we bent: solo play, protection, and babysitters.  We’ve played in separate rooms before and generally prefer it, but I won’t deny that it can be hot seeing my wife do what she likes, and there can be some fun and funny moments when everybody plays as a group.  The protection rule was something that we thought about eventually offering to a couple that we wanted to be FWB with, and turns out that they were looking for the same thing.  So we offered it to them, and left it up to them; I was in for a treat that evening.  She came over, we kissed and groped, then she went down on me for a minute and told me she wanted to ride me on the couch and asked me if I needed to get anything.  When I said “only if you want me to” she said no, and so I insisted we let my wife and her husband know so they could enjoy the same.  Holy shit.  Fantastic.  On the babysitters: they are expensive when you have 3 kids.  We waited until kids went to sleep, locked the bedroom door and stayed fairly quiet.  Turns out they aren’t affected and neither were we.

Next night (last night) was a real treat.  Next night my play partner had a bad day, and we were supposed to do another solo swap but she wasn’t feeling up to it.  I’d had a migraine all day and taken my maximum dosage of vicodin, so I was pretty grumpy just from all the pain medication.  Her husband joked “Do I have to send ********* over?” to which I replied I wouldn’t say no.  That started a 10 minute conversation between him and my wife, which resulted in wives driving to opposite houses.  His wife spent the night with me, and we didn’t go to sleep until 2, since I had to get up at 5.  My wife got to enjoy him for a few hours longer, and came home at 615’ish.

She gives me super intense orgasms that are pretty messy.  Everybody is having fun and wants more.

We’ve expressed that we aren’t interested in playing with anybody other than them and things continue to go awesome.  We’ve got a 5-day length of time coming in August where our kids are out of town with a friend, so I wonder what we will do with all that time…

Until then though, I have to travel to San Diego for work next week.

Descriptions of play dates and interesting observations…


So here’s the summary of the play dates I’ve had.  Enjoy and laugh!

Playdate 1 was a burnout.  Like bad.  We met them on Memorial Day, had a great hangout with them, at the end of the night they asked if we could get a babysitter (to play) we couldn’t.  We were going to set something up for the weekend.  Monday rolls around: I’m lifting and testing 1 rep max for deadlift that day, so at the end of the day I’m spent.  I go donate plasma (cause it pays for babysitters and such stuff) and get a text from bRaving that they want us to come over and play that night.  So I’m like ok.  We get there: she isn’t into me at all, she’s very awkward about the whole thing.  To top it off I had a little bit of vodka to cool my nerves about our first play date.  So bRaving kicks things off by making out with her, and eventually I end up kissing her (which she is good at) and we all move upstairs.  The girls trade giving eachother oral and at the time the guys got involved in iy bRaving was going down on number 1.  So I crawl on the best close to her and she gives me this horrified look and that killed any sexual desire I had in me; then she looks and sees her husband behind my wife and grabs my cock and starts stroking.  Some blood goes in and it gets a “little” hard, but not much.

She puts it in her mouth, still soft but it gets hard enough to put in her so I get a condom on.  She bends over the bed, clenches her ass and has this weird look of apprehension on her face and my dick stops working period.  So long story short, I sat on the sidelines and watched a threesome happen because she wasn’t really into it.  Embarassing and humiliating; it took a week to get over feeling like there was something wrong with me, because even my wife couldn’t get me hard that night.  However, the deadlifting, plasma donation and her lack of interest in anything to do with me is what was wrong.

Start with number 2:

She was a pleasantly thick girl mid twenties with a very small butt, height-weight proportionate, and 38D breasts.  She’s pretty wild, sexually aggressive and passionate.  I had good communication with her for a few days up to the play date.  Slow getting started but once it did, we were in their living room and she grinded on me while my wife grinded on her husband.  After that she ended up giving me head, I went down on her, started fucking her on the couch before everybody moved upstairs into separate bedrooms.

After some time on top she went to get my wife and they gave me a two-girl bj, then they went back to her husband for the same, then she came back to me while my wife stayed with her husband.  I fucked number 2 in the ass and came in her mouth.  This chic could literally suck a golfball through a garden hose.

It should be noted that we did not meet this couple beforehand, we met them and within an hour I was balls deep in her.  Very nice couple, we enjoyed them and they us, we’re trying to make another date happen.

Number 3 is about my height, 5’8 or 5’9 (I’m 5’10).  She is a former crossfitter that gained weight and is slowly coming back down while training for powerlifting.  She also had rather large breasts and a bunch of tattoos, particularly a tree that started on her left hip and ran around and up to her back and shoulders.  She has long hair on the top and shaved the sides and back so it’s more like a mohawk, but you can’t tell unless she bunches that hair up.  She is more submissive than I’ve ever really experienced.  If she wasn’t faking it, she really liked what I was doing when I went down on her (which I love doing by the way), and was very vocal and animated about it; she pounded the bed and grasped at covers a few times.  This play date was interesting because after we went through a few positions and I finished, bRaving and the other man were also finished, we laid on my bed and just cuddled with women in the middle.  It should be noted that all 4 of us were in the same room and using the same bed.  We really didn’t make contact between the couples, just two couples fucking, sucking or licking on the same bed.

Now number 3 is EXTREMELY responsive, and she warned me of this prior to the play date.  Just running my finger tips from her hip, up her side and back to her neck apparently got her worked up a lot.  We’re big kissers and so were they, so we spend a significant amount of time smashing faces together passionately (and I mean fucking PASSIONATELY).  She also let/asked me to choke her a little while we laid there, which she said she wouldn’t do beforehand, and that turned out to be a really big thing for her.  We had sex twice, tried to go for a third but it was just her and the other two were staring at us so I called it.

I had EXTREMELY good communication in the 3 days between first meet and play date, to the tune of literally spending all 3 days at work chatting with her on kik.  She allowed me to choke her and spank her during the first play date.  Caught her husband a little off guard because of how big trust and control is to her.  At one point I was behind her doing my thing, and occassionally spanking her.  Since she’s very vocal and VERY RECEPTIVE to what I was doing at one point bRaving, who was laying next to her because they were finished for that round, mentioned that I had been practicing spanking on her.  I asked number 3 if it was working and she didn’t break the moaning but her husband said “I think she’s saying yes”.  That caused all 4 of us to break out into hysterical laughter mid-fuck.  Great time.

Unfortunately due to a bad hang-out experience after that, we might not be able to play with them again, which sucks because I really enjoyed the entire play time experience.  We were supposed to hang out with them yesterday but things couldn’t line up.  I’m hoping we can repair the bruised egos and get back to being friends that fuck.  In summary though if you get a chance to have sex with a crossfitter, or a former crossfitter who is training to be a powerlifter, you should fucking do it.

Number 4 is probably my favorite, I’m not sure if I can put it in to words but I will try.

So in communication with them on Kik they told us that they weren’t married (no problem, not uncommon), had met 3 couples but never played with them before.  He is black, she is white, both in their late 30’s.  She is very thin, approximately 122 pounds and an a or b cup breasts.  She has a bunch of tattoos all over her body.  She is a very passionate lover, kisses great, uses her hands great, and smells great.  She is the whole package.  I’ve never been with a woman who was as small/skinny as she is, so it was a new experience for me.  She was also very into the oral I was giving her, and she gives really good head that doesn’t leave my balls aching for a day or two after like number 2 did.

After I went down on her and she went down on me, I leaned forward, got her upright and pulled her down on me for some passionate kissing and embracing before I told her I wanted to be in her; she put the condom on and stayed on top.  That girl can fuck from the top.  She also seemed to like it when I reached up behind her and grabbed her shoulders, pulling her down on to me when I would trust up.  After that I got on top, we had a laugh because I’m used to baby having a little more back, so we had to get a pillow to put under her butt and lift her pelvis up a little bit.  Then bent her over the side of the bed and things went a little awry for me after about 10 minutes of her being bent over-it was clear that the meds I am taking for chronic migraines weren’t going to let me achieve orgasm or even stay hard, so I asked for a break, which she was happy before because her head was spinning.

She couldn’t recover from the spinning head so we called it a night after laying next to eachother bullshitting about books, movies and favorite actors.  We were in separate rooms and I had her all to myself.  At the beginning bRaving and number 4’s boyfriend went back to a bedroom and number 4 and I sat on the couch for a little while longer and talked before she asked me to go back.  The way she kissed, touched and moved is probably what made this my favorite.  Very sensual, very passionate, all pleasure.  A few hours after we left they said the definitely wanted to play again.  So I’m working hard to make that one happen.

Among the myriad of potentials we’ve run into, we’ve had to make some priorities over others.  We’re a member of a kik group and since we’re “new meat” we get a lot of attention.  I think we’ve got a solid core group of couples that we like to play with, so everybody else can get in line.

Observations:

-everybody in the same bed can be fun because two couples having sex can be 4 people having sex (I don’t do man on man), with interaction between the two couples or switching easily.

-separate rooms is much more intimate and I think a better way for first play dates because you get to know your play mate and get comfortable being in that setting with them.

-seeing/hearing my wife pleasure another man and get pleasured by another man is not traumatic like I thought it could be, even when you consider the affairs she’s had during our marriage.  Its actually kind hot because I’m not far away doing the same thing

-this has made me feel more confident about expressing what I want about anything, I feel like something that just never came up is now easy to talk about and I don’t feel guilty or ashamed to have certain desires or needs.

So Swinging…


The wife and I had a conversation last week and we’ve decided that we’re going to try “swinging”.  For those not familiar with swinging, it is some variation of having sexual contact with another person, persons, group, all sorts of neat stuff.  We had our first meet with a couple this past weekend, the entire point of it was to get to know them, let them get to know us, and enjoy each other’s company.  They were pretty cool and we’ve planned to get together in the future.  At this point, we’re only meeting people as couples, but willing to accept a single female.  We’re open to full swap, soft swap (including oral), and same room sex.  That seems like a nice way to start this adventure.

Some of you may wonder what the difference between this and affairs?  I wondered why I would not be ok with the affairs, but ok with this as well.  The primary difference: trust and consent.  I consent to this and can trust her.

My Hard questions revisited, expanded


My original post on hard questions is here.

I chose to revisit this topic not because my wife did anything to make me upset or not trust her, but because, during my recent trip, I had a LOT of time to sit and think. The answers are always painful to hear, and they sting every time I play the mind-movie of my interviewing her in my head. Some,people may not want ot need to hear to the levelof detail I required her to tell me. It may actually set some people back and make the reality much worse. So, why did I ask that level of detail and what did I ask?

I needed to hear everything. There is an uncountable list of reasons why, but I will recall as many of them as my fingers can type. In my gut, I knew something wasn’t right, and I had suspicions from the very beginning about AP1. When I found some evidence, I didn’t wait to find more, I just jumped the gun. She was so confident in her explanation, and I WANTED to believe her, so I did. Thus deepening the negative feelings I had about myself, those that were already present because she said that the 20 pounds I had gained made her not turned on by me, and then finding out 3 nights later that she was ok joining another couple for a threesome. Bit by bit it felt like I was losing what I imagined my life and marriage was. Soon after I discovered her attempting to have one-night stands by way of an online dating site. I thoughtwe were doing better, but I coudn’t feel the connection from her, even though she was doing and trying to act like she should. Then in April I accidentally discovered the affairs. I say accidentally because she had written some details down in her therapy ntebook so that she could confess to her therapist what she was doing, and eventually me.Thankfully, she was at work when I found out. She wasn’t at work when I found out about the online profile, she was in the middle of getting the kids to bed. She had literally just gone upstairs when I grabbed her phone, located her hidden email account, and followed the trail. I called up to her and let her know that I knew about the hidden email account, and her hidden online profile, and we would talk when she came back down.  Putting the kids to bed usually takes 3 minutes or less; she didn’t come down for 20.  I don’t blame her, I was fuming, I was animated.  I yelled, and lied to the kids, telling them that mommy and daddy were happy and just playing a game.  Later that night, I calmed down, she went on a late-night Taco Bell run for me, and then we had sex; of all things we had sex within hours of me finding out about her attempts to have one-night stands.

So, back to the point.  After spending so much time thinking that everything was wrong because there were things wrong with me, I just lost complete trust in myself.  I felt what was going on around me, I just chose to ignore it and place my trust in my wife.  After all, she has my best interests in mind, and if I can’t trust anyone else I should be able to trust her, right?  That is why I asked for the most minute details.  I lived in a HUGE vacuum of truth and honesty for months, the whole time thinking I was doing something wrong, or that things about me (like my weight or unwillingness to let her have sex with another woman AND her husband at the same time!) were wrong.  What did the details actually do for me?

They gave me a sense of control, of reality.  What I was torturing myself with in my head was FAR worse than reality, although the reality still stung very badly.  I had her run me through her first sexual encounter with each affair partner.  No stone left un-turned.  What did I ask?

I asked her to give me every action she, the AP, or they together, did from the time she decided that she was going to go to their home and have sex, until she left.  As she began recounting the events, she was very uncomfortable about giving details.  Her initial recollection involved her going over there, kissing on the couch, going down on him, he going down on her, him finishing and her leaving.  Not enough detail for me.  I wanted to know what pushed her over the line, made her want to go over to AP1’s house.  I asked her what she was thinking and what she was feeling when she decided; she was invited by text message after she worked out with him.  I asked what the drive over there was like, how was traffic, how much attention was she paying to driving and what she was thinking, how her body felt (shaky, calm) and all of those things again after she pulled in his driveway.  Following that, I wanted to know about the short amount of kissing; was he good at it, was it enjoyable, how did it make you feel, what did it make you think about.  What made her decide to go down on him, was he already hard, what his size and shape were, were his pants still on, did he wear underwear, how was he positioned, how were you positioned.  Then I asked about him going down on her, did he ask her if he could, was he good at it, how was she positioned, how was he positioned, was it hard, soft or mixture, was it enjoyable, how did it make her feel, what did it make her think about, did she ever feel like any of it was wrong.  Then I asked her for details about the sex: how was she positioned, how was he positioned, was he in it for him or did he want her to get some enjoyment, did he thrust harder or softer, did he go fast or slow, did he make her wet, who put the condom on, what brand was it, did he cum in her, how long did it take, were her eyes open/did she look into his eyes during all of this, how did it make her feel, what did it make her think.  I asked about lighting in the room, what time of day it was, what the house smelled like, if the air was easy to breathe or felt thick, was she sweating, what was the temperature like, what did the texture of the couch cushions feel like, what did the carpet feel like?  What did the drive home feel like, how did she feel when she saw me for the first time after having the affair.  I asked if it ever occurred that the next day was our 6 year wedding anniversary.

I asked the same questions about the second AP, and I asked more questions about subsequent encounters with them.  She actually had sex with him twice in the restaurant, and gave him oral sex separately, once in the restaurant.  I asked if she loved them, if either of them loved her, what did she tell them about me to justify her actions to them (she said she couldn’t remember everything she told them on this subject), if I ever came into her thoughts during her romps with them.

This is actually a very difficult thing to write, I can hear all of her answers in my head, and I can feel everything I felt when I heard them then, now, as I type this.  Right now, we’re sitting at just over 4 months from when I found out.  Back to how it made me feel in control.

It made me feel like I could trust myself again, because I could feel what was going on, I knew I wasn’t crazy, my mind just hadn’t caught up to my body yet on what the truth really was.  It softened the blow of what I imagined in my head had actually happened, and it helped me speed up the process as far as internalizing and torturing myself.  Remember, I was still under the feeling that I was all sorts of fucked up, physically and mentally, and that all of this was my fault-even if she did say that it wasn’t me.

When I talked, I felt like I was in a position of being informed.  There was an added benefit of forcing her to admit to herself everything that she had done and how she felt when she was doing.

There are still some issues that will heal over time.  I recently drafted an agreement for us about how to behave, how to treat each other, and how to communicate.  She wasn’t too happy about it, not at all.  Each item in the agreement applied to both of us equally, and nothing specifically targeted her because of her actions.  I did it at my therapist’s recommendation, reinforced by a few other people who have done things along the same lines.  Almost all of my issues right now stem from a feeling of having no control over my things that happen in my life.  This agreement was my attempt to regain some control and make myself feel safe again, at least at home. I still haven’t really talked to my wife about putting it up here, we may just leave that little as a private thing between us.

Interesting to note, that she had the same kind of behavior with the boyfriend she had for years, just before she left him, and later we got back together and got married.  She was open about what she had done behind her boyfriend’s back.  I wondered before we got married if she would ever do that to me; she had already proven that she could do it to someone.  I knew she loved me, I could feel her love.  Every now and then when I couldn’t, after we were married, I wondered if she was behaving the same way and I just didn’t know it.  It’s hard knowing what happened, it’s almost just as hard knowing that it was because she was in a manic episode; I can hold her responsible, but it isn’t fully her fault.  It is difficult to be mad at her under those circumstances.  I love her so much, I know she loves me.  She’s the best thing that ever happened to me.  We have times now where one or both of us isn’t connected to the other, and that kind of thing is going to happen after having this kind of traumatic stress placed on the marriage.  For 4 months though, I think we’re doing alright.  I can still say that, even though she hurt me more than anything or anyone ever has, she is the best thing that ever happened to me, and I am happy to be married to her.  She is a wonderful person, she just did some bad things.  She’s getting better, I’m getting better, we’re getting better.

Needs, Communication, and filling gaps in the Information Environment.


In the past few days I’ve seen and responded to a number of posts about blame and infidelity and one in particular about how a spouse could have an affair if they really loved their partner ( http://ourjourneyafterhisaffair.wordpress.com/2012/06/27/that-age-old-question-after-the-discovery-of-an-affair/#comment-312 ).  A subscriber to that blog argued that the betrayed spouse has responsibility in that they failed to meet the wayward spouse’s needs, and that is why the wayward spouse strayed. 

I want to be clear in this: that I am not bashing that poster, or wayward spouses/partners, and I am not bashing my wife.  These are my thoughts on most affairs, needs, and communications.

On why affairs happen:  I believe each situation is unique.  Either way, most times the affair is a selfish act.  If you feel that your needs aren’t being met and you decide to satisfy them somewhere else, you are at fault.  Communication here is key.  Let’s take sexual attention as the example.  If you feel that you need more sexual attention than you are getting, and you ask daily, or every other day, or every three days to have sex, are you really communicating that you have a need?  Do you realize that your need for sexual attention may be a symptom of the true need that you failed to properly acknowledge?  Asking more often to have sex is not the same thing as asking for sex more often.  If on Monday I ask to have sex, and then Wednesday I ask to have sex, and then again on Friday, have I clearly, specifically, said that I need more sexual attention?  No.  If I said “Babe, I need more sexual attention from you.  I would like to have sex once every 3 days when our schedule permits.  If we find our schedules aren’t permitting, I would like to modify our schedules to make this happen” one could extrapolate that I clearly expressed my desire for more sexual attention.  Even better, I expressly described how much more sexual attention I wanted.  What could I have done better?  Described, in better detail, the type of attention that I wanted. If you consider oral sex part of intercourse and arent getting it, say something. If you want to try other things in the bedroom, say it. Before you express your need, however, you need to identify the underlying cause of that need.
Our previous need was to try new things in the bedroom. You need to ask yourself questions. You need to figure out what you’ll gain from it, if it will solve problems, and most importantly, ASSESS HOW CRITICAL THE NEED IS. If you want to try new things in bed, is it because you want to take your sex life to the next level, or is it because sex has become a routine thing and you want to spice it up? If sex has become routine, are there other things that have become routine, and lost their special meaning between you and your spouse? After you’ve answered those questions, it is time to assess the criticality of those needs. How important is the need to you? Is anal sex so important you are willing to cheat on your partner for it? Is having sex more often really going to reignite your marriage, and if your spouse refuses, is it worth the possibility of losing them to get more sex?

So the process is:
1. Identify a shortfall in your life.
2. Determine the difference between a desire (more sex) and a need (reignite passion in a stale marriage)
3. Determine the criticality of the desire, and/or need
4. Have a plan of action to implement what you believe is a solution (more sex, for example)
5. Identify measures of performance (we did or did not have sex) and measures of effectiveness (the sex did, or did not satisfy my desire or need)
6. Communicate the desire or need, your solution, your plan for implementing your solution, and what you hope to accomplish.
7. STATE THE CRITICALITY OF YOUR DESIRE OR NEED TO YOUR SPOUSE.
8. Be prepared for your spouse to provide alternate solutions, alternate implementation, to just say no, or to require you to compensate him/her by satisfying one of their desires/needs.

One last thing on communication:
A common phrase in the Corps is “shoot, move, communicate.” If you are not shooting, you should be moving or communicating. With respect to communication, here are the key items:
1. What do I know? (Your desires and needs)
2. Who needs to know it? (Your spouse, possibly someone in the medical field)
3. How can I communicate with them? (Talking, phone, texting, email, letter)
4. When can I communicate with them? (You have no cell service, they are on a flight, you’re at the shooting range with them)
If you’ve communicated, you should be acting. If you’ve satisfied all if your desires and needs, the time has come to start thinking outside the box and trying new things within the limits you and your spouse set.